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role du nolvadex en pct


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https://thinksteroids.com/articles/why-use-both-clomid-and-nolvadex-together-for-pct/  la il parle du fait que le nolvadex agit aussi bien que le clomid a un dosage moindre, donc sa serait surtout un moyen de diminuer les effets négatifs de l'un et l'autre en les combinant pour réduire le dosage en sorte.

 

la un petit texte :D   clomid vs nolva :

 

"Nolvadex vs Clomid"

by William Llewellyn

I have received a lot of heat lately about my preference for Nolvadex over Clomid, which I hold for all purposes of use (in the bodybuilding world anyway); as an anti-estrogen, an HDL (good) cholesterol-supporting drug, and as a testosterone-stimulating compound. Most people use Nolvadex to combatgynecomastia over Clomid anyway, so that is an easy sell. And for cholesterol, well, most bodybuilders unfortunately pay little attention to this important issue, so by way of disinterest, another easy opinion to discuss. But when it comes to using Nolvadex for increasing endogenous testosterone release, bodybuilders just do not want to hear it. They only seem to want Clomid. I can only guess that this is based on a long rooted misunderstanding of the actions of the two drugs. In this article I would therefore like to discuss the specifics for these two agents, and explain clearly the usefulness of Nolvadex for the specific purpose of increasing testosterone production.

Clomid and Nolvadex

I am not sure how Clomid and Nolvadex became so separated in the minds of bodybuilders. They certainly should not be. Clomid and Nolvadex are both anti-estrogens belonging to the same group of triphenylethylene compounds. They are structurally related and specifically classified as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) with mixed agonistic and antagonistic properties. This means that in certain tissues they can block the effects of estrogen, by altering the binding capacity of the receptor, while in others they can act as actual estrogens, activating the receptor. In men, both of these drugs act as anti-estrogens in their capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). lh - leutenizing hormone - output by the pituitary will be increased as a result, which in turn can increase the level of testosterone by the testes. Both drugs do this, but for some reason bodybuilders persist in thinking that Clomid is the only drug good at stimulating testosterone. What you will find with a little investigation however is that not only is Nolvadex useful for the same purpose, it should actually be the preferred agent of the two.

Pituitary Sensitivity to GnRH

Studies conducted in the late 1970's at the University of Ghent in Belgium make clear the advantages of using Nolvadex instead of Clomid for increasing testosterone levels (1). Here, researchers looked the effects of Nolvadex and Clomid on the endocrine profiles of normal men, as well as those suffering from low sperm counts (oligospermia). For our purposes, the results of these drugs on hormonally normal men are obviously the most relevant. What was found, just in the early parts of the study, was quite enlightening. Nolvadex, used for 10 days at a dosage of 20mg daily, increased serum testosterone levels to 142% of baseline, which was on par with the effect of 150mg of Clomid daily for the same duration (the testosterone increase was slightly, but not significantly, better for Clomid). We must remember though that this is the effect of three 50mg tablets of Clomid. With the price of both a 50mg Clomid and 20mg Nolvadex typically very similar, we are already seeing a cost vs. results discrepancy forming that strongly favors the Nolvadex side.

But something more interesting is happening. Researchers were also conducting GnRH stimulation tests before and after various points of treatment with Nolvadex and Clomid, and the two drugs had markedly different results. These tests involved infusing patients with 100mcg of GnRH and measuring the output of pituitary lh - leutenizing hormone - in response. The focus of this test is to see how sensitive the pituitary is to Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone. The more sensitive the pituitary, the more lh - leutenizing hormone - will be released. The tests showed that after ten days of treatment with Nolvadex, pituitary sensitivity to GnRH increased slightly compared to pre-treated values. This is contrast to 10 days of treatment with 150mg Clomid, which was shown to consistently DECREASE pituitary sensitivity to GnRH (more lh - leutenizing hormone - was released before treatment). As the study with Nolvadex progresses to 6 weeks, pituitary sensitivity to GnRH was significantly higher than pre-treated or 10-day levels. At this point the same 20mg dosage was also raising testosterone and lh - leutenizing hormone - levels to an average of 183% and 172% of base values, respectively, which again is measurably higher than what was noted 10 days into therapy. Within 10 days of treatment Clomid is already exerting an effect that is causing the pituitary to become slightly desensitized to GnRH, while prolonged use of Nolvadex serves only to increase pituitary sensitivity to this hormone. That is not to say Clomid won't increase testosterone if taken for the same 6 week time period. Quite the opposite is true. But we are, however, noticing an advantage in Nolvadex.

The Estrogen Clomid

The above discrepancies are likely explained by differences in the estrogenic nature of the two compounds. The researchers' clearly support this theory when commenting in their paper, "The difference in response might be attributable to the weak intrinsic estrogenic effect of Clomid, which in this study manifested itself by an increase in transcortin and testosterone/estradiol-binding globulin [sex hormone binding globulin ] levels; this increase was not observed aftertamoxifen treatment". In reviewing other theories later in the paper, such as interference by increased androgen or estrogen levels, they persist in noting that increases in these hormones were similar with both drug treatments, and state that," ?a role of the intrinsic estrogenic activity of Clomid which is practically absent in Tamoxifen seems the most probable explanation".

Although these two are related anti-estrogens, they appear to act very differently at different sites of action. Nolvadex seems to be strongly anti-estrogenic at both the hypothalamus and pituitary, which is in contrast to Clomid, which although a strong anti-estrogen at the hypothalamus, seems to exhibit weak estrogenic activity at the pituitary. To find further support for this we can look at an in-vitro animal study published in the American Journal of Physiology in February 1981 (2). This paper looks at the effects of Clomid and Nolvadex on the GnRH stimulated release of lh - leutenizing hormone - from cultured rat pituitary cells. In this paper, it was noted that incubating cells with Clomid had a direct estrogenic effect on cultured pituitary cell sensitivity, exerting a weaker but still significant effect compared to estradiol. Nolvadex on the other hand did not have any significant effect on lh - leutenizing hormone - response. Furthermore it mildly blocked the effects of estrogen when both were incubated in the same culture.

Conclusion

To summarize the above research succinctly, Nolvadex is the more purely anti-estrogenic of the two drugs, at least where the hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular Axis) is concerned. This fact enables Nolvadex to offer the male bodybuilder certain advantages over Clomid. This is especially true at times when we are looking to restore a balanced hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - , and would not want to desensitize the pituitary to GnRH. This could perhaps slow recovery to some extent, as the pituitary would require higher amounts of hypothalamic GnRH in the presence of Clomid in order to get the same level of lh - leutenizing hormone - stimulation.

Nolvadex also seems preferred from long-term use, for those who find anti-estrogens effective enough at raising testosterone levels to warrant using as anabolics. Here Nolvadex would seem to provide a better and more stable increase in testosterone levels, and likely will offer a similar or greater effect than Clomid for considerably less money. The potential rise in sex hormone binding globulin levels with Clomid, supported by other research (3), is also cause for concern, as this might work to allow for comparably less free active testosterone compared to Nolvadex as well. Ultimately both drugs are effective anti-estrogens for the prevention of gynecomastia and elevation of endogenous testosterone.

 

 

 

au final si tu veux en utiliser que un tu as fais le mauvais choix

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Le Nolva bloque une partie des récepteurs œstrogéniques périphériques (pas les récepteurs hypophysaires), ça permet d'éviter les problèmes qui surviennent quand il y a trop d’œstrogènes (gyno, etc...). Donc ça sert surtout a se protéger d'un rebond œstrogénique pour ceux qui stoppent l'Arimidex en pct.

 

Nolvaldex : Anti-œstrogène par inhibition compétitive de la liaison de l'estradiol avec ses récepteurs.

 

Inhibition compétitive ça veut tout simplement dire que le Nolva prend la place des œstrogènes dans les récepteurs œstrogéniques donc plus de place pour les œstrogènes donc tu bloques les effets secondaires que tu pourrais avoir avec trop d’œstrogènes.

 

Arimidex détruit les œstrogènes, Nolva bloque la réception des œstrogènes mais ne les détruit pas.

 

Clomid bloque les récepteurs œstrogéniques aussi, même principe que le Nolva par contre il le fait au niveau hypophysaire donc il ne protégerait pas des effets secondaires d'un trop plein d’œstrogènes (gyno, etc...) par contre il fait croire à ton hypophyse qu'il n'y a pas assez d’œstrogènes donc l'hypophyse se remet au travail pour relancer la production GnRH ---> LH + FSH ---> Testo ---> DHT + Œstrogènes.

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Holla

 

JRC : "il fait croire à ton hypophyse qu'il n'y a pas assez d’œstrogènes donc l'hypophyse se remet au travail pour relancer la production GnRH ---> LH + FSH ---> Testo ---> DHT + Œstrogènes."

 

Donc le Clomid peut, comme l'HCG, donner de la gyno ? A terme ? Contrairement à un anti-oestro pure et simple comme Aridimex ?

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Non je ne pense pas que ça puisse arriver de cette manière pour plusieurs raisons :

 

- Le rétrocontrôle négatif s'effectue à plusieurs niveau (hypothalamus et hypophyse).

- Ta glande ne produira jamais assez de LH et FSH pour déclencher une production énorme de testo et engendrer à ce point des œstrogènes.

- Le Clomid fait croire qu'il y a moins d’œstrogènes car il prend la place de ceux-ci au niveau des récepteurs mais ne peut pas faire croire qu'il n'y en a plus du tout, les œstrogènes passent quand même un minimum.

- Il faudrait que tu te gave tellement de Clomid que tu aurais des effets secondaires de fou.

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A terme quand ton système repart oui du coup tes couilles reprennent leur taille normale mais ce n'est pas un effet direct du Clomid.

 

La HCG imite la LH et donne directement ordre à tes couilles de produire de la testo, ça peut permettre de garder une activité testiculaire minimale pendant la cure par exemple pour pas avoir les couilles qui rétrécissent trop.

 

Pour le volume éjaculatoire il y a la HMG (c'est une composition de LH et de FSH ou de FSH seule selon le médoc) mais bon pas toujours facile à trouver comme produit, apparemment Proviron fonctionne aussi.

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Ouep c'est tout à fait provisoire et réversible mais il y a des gars qui n'aime pas ça, si ça les intéresse tant mieux mais c'est clair que c'est pas le plus important, le plus important c'est que le système reparte bien.

 

 

C'est clair, vaut mieux pas rester bloquer  :lol:

 

 

Tu resteras pas bloqué...

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hello les mecs.je vais en rajouter encore une couche.j'ai un ami qui fait des cures depuis plusieurs années et qui prend que du clomid en pct.il ne savait meme pas que le clomid se combinait avec le nolva.il a un physique de ouf et n'a jamais eu de problemes.qu'en pensez vous.

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